Eugenia Cooney

[dietcokediet]

Her face is starting to look anorexic. Probably because she is not a teen anymore so no more facial fat.

Ps. I know this sounds ridiculous but for me it is easier to tell the difference between a skinny and someone suffering from anorexia because of how the face looks "starved".

Ps2. Im talking about anorexia at the emaciated level.

 

[Silent Night]

Does anyone know the laws around this in the US? I know kids can be hospitalized if someone deemsm them a legitimate threat to self or others, and I could call 911 on an adult who had a plan and means. But someone who's dying a slow, self-induced death?

I have been reading about this among limited resources I found online. It appears that the main difference is that in the US involuntary commitment has to be warranted by a court, and so is a more difficult and involved process where the doctor institutes a short-term 'hold' on the patient and then applies for court permission to detain them longer; in the UK a doctor or social worker can section you under the Mental Health Act based on their own judgement as long as they have a corroborating second opinion. The litigative culture in the US inhibits doctors from taking this step. Apparently enforced treatment is either billed to health insurance or to the patient if they have none. In some states court-ordered treatment like drug rehab is reimbursed by the state, but I couldn't find out whether that's the case for ED treatment.

It seems that in both cases there are no set criteria for detention (like a specific BMI for example) but the decision is based on the patient's capacity to decide on their treatment (anorexia is not classed as a thought disorder so they are usually considered to have capacity unless their thinking is seriously compromised by their condition or a comorbid psychiatric condition) and their health provider's assessment of their physical risk and their likelihood of compliance with treatment.

My experience of this is in the UK is that medical professionals vary profoundly in their impressions of what constitutes legal capacity and on what medical conditions represent a risk to life. Although from reading the literature it appears that sectioning should be a last-resort process, in fact it is common in anorexia and it is not unusual for health workers to use threats and to withhold information about a patient's rights in order to make them accept treatment 'voluntarily'. At the same time, many patients with a normal BMI are refused treatment even if they have dangerously abnormal blood tests or hormone deficits due to an ED or are refusing food and fluids completely.

In the case of Ashley Isaacs that we were discussing upthread, I would think her capacity would be classed as compromised because of the severity of her anorexia, and as her life is clearly at risk and she is not seeking treatment herself, she could be sectioned.

 

[oferta]

Her face is starting to look anorexic. Probably because she is not a teen anymore so no more facial fat.

Ps. I know this sounds ridiculous but for me it is easier to tell the difference between a skinny and someone suffering from anorexia because of how the face looks "starved".

Ps2. Im talking about anorexia at the emaciated level.

I am quoting instead of just clicking the 'disagree' . Funny you mention this, because if she is covered up and hides her limbs, just by looking at her face, I would never guess she is this emaciated. I guess I have to leave behind the my stereotype thinking.

 

[perkybones]

Really?

I feel like she has 'bigger' facial structure but overall, there is little fat on it.

Recently, she looks very drained.

 

[dietcokediet]

I am quoting instead of just clicking the 'disagree' . Funny you mention this, because if she is covered up and hides her limbs, just by looking at her face, I would never guess she is this emaciated. I guess I have to leave behind the my stereotype thinking.

 

[Merci Petite]

This sad because of her, disappointing because of people and because if she continues to get attention she could start to get worse.

 

[Ellie]

I understand what @oferta means, though. She has a very round-shaped face - not the extremely-sunken-cheekbone look like the other toothpick chick has.

 

[Artemis]

@Ellie Okay so you already know I'm ignorant about a lot of psychology stuff and you're the boss so:
In situations like Eugenia's, how do you know the difference between twisted attention-seeking and a cry for help? Her channel reminds of a really tacky Kafka's Hunger Artist.

 

[perkybones]

I was watching some of her recent videos on addressing the current hate she's getting.

She has a point, she can't get hated on for being a certain size etc...

But I think it is fairly clear she has an eating disorder and it is not NATURAL (AS SHE REPEATEDLY STATES). Even during the videos, she sounded tired, exhausted and just not put together.

Her denial is getting more and more embedded in her head.

In saying that, Eugenia is sweet and harmless (and really needs help).

 

[Odette]

All these comments about her appearance and how she needs help are only going to fuel her eating disorder. Seems like the disordered part of her really enjoys the attention she is getting. I'm sure deep inside she knows the more she denies the problem publicly the more fuelling comments she gets and that is her goal.

This video of Portia De Rossi answering a question "What should or shouldn't I say to someone I suspect is anorexic" pretty much explains the whole mentality of a disfunctional brain:

 

[Odette]

The other thing I'd like to address is I find it beyond disgusting how people all around the internet are blaming Eugenia for turning young girls into anorexics because they think of her as thinspo. That is none of Eugenias responsibility for god sakes!!!! Girls (and quys) prone to EDs will find their unhealthily thin idols regardless of Eugenia's existence.

 

[Ellie]

In situations like Eugenia's, how do you know the difference between twisted attention-seeking and a cry for help? Her channel reminds of a really tacky Kafka's Hunger Artist.

Realized I forgot to reply to this!

I don't work with EDs, so take this with a grain of salt. But when you get to Eugenia's point, I don't think there's much of a functional difference, and I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

My two cents is that "look at me, give me attention" and "I'm showing you how much pain I'm in, please help me" are both just variations on "I need to feel loved."

 

[perkybones]

You can live an entire lifetime with severe anorexia. I know several women like that in their 60s who've had the disease for 40+ years. Say bmi around 11-12. I've also known several people who died in their 20s of cardiac failure because their heart was so atrophied and they starved themselves of electrolytes, or due to massive organ failure. Some people have normal longevity despite living well within the danger zone (but as @oferta pointed out, it's a solitary, painful and meaningless existence); others are vulnerable and quickly lose their life. You don't know who will be in which category, so it's impossible to say how long a particular person will survive. However you can guarantee that Eugenia has severe health complications right now, especially bone depletion, possibly kidney and liver damage too, not to mention the risk of sudden death.

As for Ashley Isaacs, I'd say she is a far, far outlier. It's unusual for someone in that state still to be mobile or even fully conscious. In this country she would be legally detained and force-fed.

About the women in their 60s: really? I wouldn't think the body would survive that long...

Did they have 'normal' lives (ie marriage, kids)?

 

[vanitas]

About the women in their 60s: really? I wouldn't think the body would survive that long...

Did they have 'normal' lives (ie marriage, kids)?

From what I've seen (which is admittedly limited to one or two people I've known of) women who survive severe anorexia well into middle age or older often have very far from normal lives and are very lonely and isolated.

Emma Woolf's book 'An Apple a Day' follows her fertility struggles as a recovering anorexic; it's worth a read because I think it demonstrates how a past history of anorexia (she weighed about 5 stone for a few years) can have a long term effect on fertility even after someone has reached a 'normal' BMI.

 

[Silent Night]

About the women in their 60s: really? I wouldn't think the body would survive that long...

Yes, really. Obviously I haven't met the ones who are already dead so these cases may well be rare.

Did they have 'normal' lives (ie marriage, kids)?

Person 1: Married, no kids. 'Institutionalised' - constantly rotating in and out of IP. Husband as carer.

Person 2: Two sons from before anorexia, no husband. Resistant to treatment so sectioned occasionally over many years.

Person 3: Married, no kids. Resistant to treatment so sectioned occasionally over many years. Husband as carer.

Person 4: No husband or kids. Goes to voluntary treatment occasionally when things get medically unmanageable.

None of these people could work.

There are also some older women whom I see around where I live who appear to be totally alone and spend their time walking fast around the area and reading labels in the supermarket.

The health authorities take a different attitude to older patients; after that long with the illness they assume you won't get better so will allow short admissions to achieve medical stability without aiming for recovery.

 

[quipawiticism]

The delightfully psychotic Freelee has offered for her to come live with her in Australia. Because, you know, someone with severe mental illness can be cured with fruit. I think it's actually quite sweet of her on the surface, but it's also a publicity thing. To be honest, I would probably watch her year with Freelee just to see what would happen...

 

[Ange]

The delightfully psychotic Freelee has offered for her to come live with her in Australia. Because, you know, someone with severe mental illness can be cured with fruit. I think it's actually quite sweet of her on the surface, but it's also a publicity thing. To be honest, I would probably watch her year with Freelee just to see what would happen...

Watching this made me so incredibly uncomfortable. Putting aside the publicity aspect, this was a very kind offer, but the way Freelee kept showing and talking about the food was, I don't know, it felt condescending perhaps? I can't quite place it. Trying to watch it from what Eugenia might be seeing and feeling, it was like Freelee sees her as a helpless little animal and she's trying to tempt her into a friendly trap. I appreciate her openness and the kindness and warmth is needed and hopefully appreciated by Eugenia after all of the negativity and hate she's receiving. But again, I'm not sure this will work. Eugenia seems sooooo set on denying that she has a problem. Perhaps this positive approach will break her, for the better? I doubt it. She's got everyone watching and so she has more control than ever. Perhaps she'll change once people stop caring. Hopefully it happens before she gets severely ill.

How would you all respond if someone extended this offer to you if you were in Eugenia's position?

 

[stardust]

Watching this made me so incredibly uncomfortable. Putting aside the publicity aspect, this was a very kind offer, but the way Freelee kept showing and talking about the food was, I don't know, it felt condescending perhaps? I can't quite place it. Trying to watch it from what Eugenia might be seeing and feeling, it was like Freelee sees her as a helpless little animal and she's trying to tempt her into a friendly trap. I appreciate her openness and the kindness and warmth is needed and hopefully appreciated by Eugenia after all of the negativity and hate she's receiving. But again, I'm not sure this will work. Eugenia seems sooooo set on denying that she has a problem. Perhaps this positive approach will break her, for the better? I doubt it. She's got everyone watching and so she has more control than ever. Perhaps she'll change once people stop caring. Hopefully it happens before she gets severely ill.

How would you all respond if someone extended this offer to you if you were in Eugenia's position?

I wouldn't want to live in a house where people try to stuff me with bananas and bully me if I don't agree with eating 542 oranges a day

 

[azaitte]

I wouldn't want to live in a house where people try to stuff me with bananas and bully me if I don't agree with eating 542 oranges a day

I completely agree. I mean, forcing yourself to eat in front of family is already hard mentally, when you are so severely ill, but go to a complete stranger's house and be forced to eat all the food that Freelee is, and potentially be filmed and then have a video of youself eating on youtube, is a whole new level of discomfort. I remember, when I was recovering from anorexia, I struggled so much eating in front of my friends, as they haven't seen me eating for several years, that it came to a point that I was avoiding them, because in my head, eating in front of them was such a big deal.
If Freelee had anorexia, as she claimed she did, I think she should know better that a mountain of fruits is not going to make the mental illness go away. I understand that it is important for Eugenia to get to a healthier weight, but I mean...at least from my experience, the fact that you put on weight and become physically healthier, doesn't mean that you are 'healed'.

 

[quipawiticism]

Freelee is an anomaly to me. She quite clearly had good intentions extending that invitation to Eugenia, but the whole "I recovered from anorexia" thing is annoying to me. From what Freelee has said about it, she just went a little too nuts on the calorie restriction. If she had, indeed, suffered from anorexia she would have a much deeper understanding of the psychological implications. As you all have mentioned above with the eating in public, and other difficulties related, eating a butt tonne of food (regardless of if it's fruit) is one of the worst things you could try and force on an anorexic. It would probably be completely counterproductive in the long run.

Also, as I read through the comments before I just had to point something out that was bothering me. People were saying "anorexia is not a symptom or something that passes". Actually, it is. Anorexia Nervosa, is the disease and that itself is not a symptom or a fleeting experience. In medicine, "anorexia" is the general term used to describe the lack of desire or inability to eat (as in the example of the stomach flu). I'll call it "situational" anorexia. It's not a disease of the mind, it's a symptom of say, a vicious stomach virus or a tumour, etc. I just thought some clarification there was in order, as I don't think anyone would think that Anorexia Nervosa, the eating disorder, was a symptom.